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'Caveh
Zahedi is easily accused of navel-gazing solipsism the subject
matter of his four feature films and several additional shorts is,
first and foremost, Caveh Zahedi but his inventive artistry and
rigorous work ethic belie any notion that this method is too finite
a canvas for a long career. Just as Hitchcock found dozens of diverse
expressive forms within the thriller genre, Zahedi uses autobiography
as a lens through which any topic may be considered. His latest
and most wildly ambitious feature, I Am a Sex Addict, details,
through reenactments and genre-deconstructing demolitions of the
fourth wall, Zahedis own true struggle with, yes, sex addiction.
A talented group of actresses take on the roles of his exes, while
Zahedi plays himself from age 23 (with a sly wink at the absurdity
of this convention) to the present. The films title, which Zahedi
readily admits was in place before hed really begun shaping the
content, has an irresistibly exploitative bent that would do Roger
Corman proud and alone is sure to expand the films audience beyond
the hardcore fan base that has stuck by Zahedi through his previous
features (A Little Stiff, I Dont Hate Las Vegas Anymore,
In the Bathtub of the World). Whether or not those drawn
in for prurient titillation will be ready for the painfully frank,
unapologetically peculiar and often disarmingly hilarious micro-epic
that Zahedi delivers remains to be seen. All that is certain is
that, whether he scrapes up $10 or $10 million for his next project,
hell find a way to plow on. A true independents independent,
Zahedi has proved a master of adapting to circumstances; any filmmaker
might take inspiration and instruction from his example.
The
last few days Ive been rewatching all your films. When you put
them all next to each other, they start to seem like fragments of
one greater work, but then I thought it was a credit to you that
I hadnt previously thought of them as such. They all stand up so
well on their own, and though you always deal with similar material,
you invent a new perspective every time. To what extent are you
making a conscious effort to never repeat yourself formally?
Im
definitely trying not to repeat myself. Its partly organic in that
I get really bored doing the same thing twice. For example, with
the video diary [In the Bathtub of the World], I tried to do it
again a second time one year later, and just couldnt get excited
about it, even though the format really lends itself to being revisited.
I really liked what I had done, and actually thought it was better
than the last one, but I just got sidetracked and was more excited
by doing something totally new.
Your
oeuvre is unique to the point that it seems to defy conventional
description altogether. Though technically the bulk of your work
might be documentary, Id be reluctant to call it that.
I
dont really call it documentary either. I call it hybridization,
I guess, when people ask me to describe my work. And I call it autobiographical,
because that seems to encompass it all.
But
I have this feeling when I watch your films that youre not only
the documentarian and the documentee but also in fact a performer.
I think of you sometimes almost as a physical comic.
I
do think of what I do as performative, but I see any performance
as having a conscious and an unconscious element, so I feel both
of those are operative, and I feel theyre both necessary for the
film to work. Im interested in the performance of everyday life.
I think that everyone is always performing. Adding a camera definitely
complicates the performance, but its a question of degree rather
than an ontological difference.
Of
course other people perform for your camera as well as you do, but
theres necessarily a different nature to those performances because
you are the one in control of the camera and the editing.
Well,
I tend to put people on the spot to elicit certain kinds of cinema-friendly
reactions. And thats one of the things that gets me in trouble
with some viewers who find it morally questionable. But I guess
Im trying to get past peoples faades as much as possible, to
get at something deeper and truer.
One
of my favorite scenes in I Am a Sex Addict is when you step
out of the narrative and show footage of yourself trying unsuccessfully
to convince the actress playing Christa to perform a blowjob scene.
The theme of coercion seems to come up time and again in your work.
I
think life is really about negotiations, and that every act of will
is a kind of violence. Its very rare that another person wants
to do exactly what you want to do, so youre constantly trying to
negotiate conflicting desires. Part of what Im trying to dramatize
and embody is that very complicated, constant process of negotiations
that goes on, often in a very hidden way. Because people are either
unwilling to express their desire in the face of another persons
desire, or unconscious of their actual desire. Its almost a constant
battlefield at every moment, of I want this but you want that,
so how about we do this other thing? No, I dont want to do
that other thing. Okay, how about just this one part? Okay,
just this one part Im okay with, but that other part Im not.
And I think filmmaking is like that, too. Every day we dont get
what we want, and we constantly have to process and deal with that
grief. And try to get to a place of acceptance. I think thats actually
the main theme of my work. I have a film project called A Portrait
of Caveh Zahedi as a Complete Failure that sort of addresses this
directly through the form of an A&E Biography parody. I started
it and shot some stuff, but its kind of on hold now. Its not a
project that Ive been able to get any money for, so its something
I just do when I can. A lot of the work I do now is really dictated
by economics.
It
does seem extraordinary for any American filmmaker to have completed
four features, not to mention all the shorts, without a reliance
on the traditional bankable elements. How do you approach funding?
You
know, with great wailing and gnashing of teeth. I dont know, my
first film was student loans, the second film was grants, the third
film was really cheap, and the last film was one investor who for
some reason really believed in me and the project, for reasons beyond
just the commercial.
Youre
very good at adapting your aesthetics to whichever particular constraints,
financial or otherwise.
I
think when I was younger I was more Napoleonic about it, and I had
a lot of Waterloos before I figured this out. So now I do think
a lot in terms of budget and time constraints and whats realistic.
For me the joy of filmmaking is really the joy of solving problems.
How do you make something good with this, this and this, and without
using that or that? Its like a puzzle. I think the economic constraint
is a good one because its actually a social constraint as well.
Its a constraint on the [filmmaking] language youre using as well,
and it keeps you from going off the deep end into what would be
nonsense for most. I saw Me and You and Everyone We Know
recently, and I really liked it a lot. I thought here was a fresh
and unique voice that didnt follow the mold and yet was completely
entertaining and fun. I thought it was a really great example of
what the future can be. I mean, its like a Trojan horse; she got
a lot of good stuff through the gates of Troy on that one.
My
worry about the Trojan horse argument is always, who is subverting
who? Have smart insights been snuck through to the unsuspecting
public, or have smart insights been deadened by the vehicle?
Yeah,
but I dont think its a question of whos subverting who. Both
sides are being subverted mutually. And theres a third thing created
which is a non-authorial synthesis that happens at the level of
language or culture, which is in a way more interesting than either
the authorial intention or the social recuperation mechanism. Its
like when two ant colonies have a war, and each has their own architectural
aesthetic, and when one of the ant colonies wins the war, the architectural
aesthetic of the new ant colony becomes a melding of the two different
aesthetics. So both sides lose in a sense, or both sides win, depending
on how you look at it.
You
give a monologue at the end of I Dont Hate Las Vegas Anymore
wherein you offhandedly mention that your next project is going
to be about your sex addiction. That was in 1992. Whats it like
to live with something so long, and how intimidating is it to finally
have this long-incubated film come to fruition?
Intimidating is a good word. So many years went by and there was
so much pain and frustration and repeatedly-dashed hopes, that by
the time the money actually arrived, it was really terrifying. The
stakes were a lot higher than if I had just gotten the money when
I wrote the damn thing. [laughs] There was a real struggle with
fear of not being up to the challenge of what I had hoped the film
would be... There were four different sets of producers at different
points who all had options on it but failed to raise the money.
And there was one producer who would only do it if I could get a
name actor, so I think a year or two was spent just trying to get
a name actor to read the script. That was its own complete nightmare.
We sent it to Robert Downey, Jr., Vincent Gallo and Harmony Korine.
And I was also trying to get Chlo Sevigny, because I thought she
and Harmony would be convincing as a couple for the middle part
of the film. I tried to get Steve Buscemi to be in it. Chris Eigeman
I tried to get. But it was all very frustrating because I didnt
even want someone else. I just wanted to play it myself. It seemed
like it was a bolder and more artistically profound statement to
actually act in it myself.
Its
hard for me to picture someone else playing you.
I
talked to most of them and most were very nice, but they all passed.
And some said, You know, you should do it yourself. And I said,
I know I should, but these producers wont go for it. And finally
it all fell through and the producers dropped out and I had no choice
but to do it myself. So I actually tried to do it in 16mm about
eight years ago, and I scraped a few thousand dollars together to
shoot just a few scenes. Its a long story, but everything went
wrong and I ended up having to give up my apartment in L.A. where
I had shot the scenes, so all the footage I shot became useless.
I basically just gave up at that point. And then several years later
I got some money to do it, but the budget restraints were such that
I had to rethink the style of the film. And then it took three and
a half years to get it right. Its a tricky film.
Were
you editing as you shot over those years?
Yeah,
I would shoot a few scenes and then edit those scenes. And then
I would reshoot whatever I wasnt entirely happy with (which was
usually almost everything Id shot), and then reedit once again,
etc. I thought that would be the optimal way to make the movie work,
but it had a lot of downsides which I didnt realize until later.
Actors age, get deported, gain weight, leave town, lose interest,
cut their hair. It was very hard to get continuity to work. And
you can get really obsessive about fixing every flaw for a scene
that you might not even end up using. Wed shoot a scene over and
over and over and then finally just throw it away because it didnt
even fit.
There
are some phenomenal orgasm performances from you in the film. What
was your approach going into those?
Well,
Im just trying to [laughs] have an orgasm on film. And I was trying
to have it be funny, and maybe I overdid it a little. I guess I
think an orgasm is one of those kind of hidden truths. When I was
younger I used to look at people on the street or subway and try
to imagine them having an orgasm, and it was always very humanizing.
Its a very vulnerable thing, its a very ecstatic thing, its a
very extreme thing. Its a very uncontrolled thing where ones facade
is really let down. Also I think the orgasm is an objective correlative
for what the whole film is. I guess I feel like whats beautiful
in art is excess, something irreducible that cant be contained
by the frame or by the story, and an orgasm is the perfect metaphor
for that.
With
sex scenes, an audiences natural inclination can often be to react
only with either titillation or discomfort, depending on how the
scene is done. Neither of which necessarily serves your dramatic
purposes. Was that a worry?
No,
I was really looking forward to those scenes. It was important for
me to represent sex in a non-titillating, non-pornographic and non-Hollywood
kind of way. To show it in its awkwardness, its bumblingness, its
humor and true strangeness. Because the film is so stylized, that
came across in very odd ways rather than naturalistic ways. And
yet that was definitely what I was going for the truth about sex,
I guess.
Do
you feel your films invite hostility from the mainstream?
I
think Im confronting people. Theres a certain series of norms
in our culture that tell us what it is to be a good human being,
and my films embody a refutation of a lot of those ideas, or at
least a dramatization of a possible refutation. I think a lot of
people respond on a real visceral level when they feel threatened
in their deeply held assumptions of what is good and true.
Although
Sex Addict contains frank and difficult subject matter, it
feels like youre attempting to woo a mainstream audience. There
are a lot of very friendly flourishes, such as the music and the
animation sequences.
Accessibility
becomes more and more of a concern for me. For Sex Addict, because
the subject matter was so harsh, and what I was asking people to
accept was morally dubious and borderline unacceptable, I felt I
really needed to palliate that with a friendly style. Its like
that line by George Bernard Shaw: If youre going to tell people
the truth, youd better make them laugh or theyll kill you.
Is
Sex Addict more truthful than your other work?
One
axis of it is more truthful, and one axis of it is less truthful.
In order to pull off something, you have to give up something else.
It took years for me to find the balance that was acceptable to
me, where I wasnt selling out completely but also making a film
that people could stand. Its not the film that I would make just
for myself, because I have a very high tolerance for what others
would consider morally excruciating.
I
like what you said about the different axes of truth and lies. Movies
seem to be inherently a confluence of truth and lies at every moment,
and to suggest that theres a calculus to it, that by opening up
one end you have to dilute it on the other, has a certain straightforward
logic to it that I think sounds right.
Personally,
Im interested in shifting the axes each time. Finding another way
to be truthful and another way to be dishonest.
If
you did have your absolute druthers, what kinds of films do you
imagine you would make for the next 10 or 20 years?
If
it were up to me, I would make films that push the language of film
as radically as possible, but also as playfully as possible. I mean,
Im really interested in films that are entertaining. But I love
extremity as well.
Sex
Addict deals with therapy explicitly, but all your films involve
your character seeking one kind of catharsis or another. Do you
feel like filmmaking is an effective form of therapy?
Film
is such an intentional act and requires such manipulation and self-consciousness
that its therapeutic function, for me, is never at the level of
the issues that the film is ostensibly about in this case,
my sex addiction. For me, the therapeutic function is always at
the level of the eternal combat that one is engaged in between ones
desire and ones actuality. The struggle with the demon or
the angel of the self and of art is always what its about.
This film was incredibly healing for me not because of the sexual
issues it raises, but just because of the incredible challenge of
trying to make anything. And somehow making it and putting it out
in the world with all of its limitations and being able to say,
I did this, and this is my self-expression. Being proud
of that and able to embrace it the catharsis is at that level.
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